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Caellach Marellus
Nephtys Ventures inc
442
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Posted - 2012.02.22 02:29:00 -
[1] - Quote
There's a severe lack of subtlety in this story, but I'll entertain your query.
Those people had the right to choose, granted they chose poorly in hindsight but it was their choice. However while the Federation cannot occupy the village itself, there was no reason it couldn't take position outside of the perimeter, and repel any would be hostiles.
Where there's a will there's a way, respect for the Village's self autonomy would be replied with respect for the Peacekeepers from the locals for their continuing service while adhering to agreements.
In time that would develop stronger ties and co-operation. Bullrushing in because "We know what's best for you" will never result in a positive outcome. Time and patience cannot be underestimated. Enjoy your gaming.
http://northern-goblin.blogspot.com |
Caellach Marellus
Nephtys Ventures inc
442
|
Posted - 2012.02.22 13:22:00 -
[2] - Quote
Vechtor wrote:The space around Intaki and other Placid systems is Federation responsibility.
Just to clarify, when you say "Intaki" are you talking about the space around Intaki the planet (thus Intaki the system) or Intaki the System (thus talking about neighbouring systems such as Vey) Enjoy your gaming.
http://northern-goblin.blogspot.com |
Caellach Marellus
Nephtys Ventures inc
442
|
Posted - 2012.02.22 13:51:00 -
[3] - Quote
Tiberious Thessalonia wrote:If you have the power to stop a massacre, know it's coming, and yet you do nothing.
You don't have to impede on their rights and wishes to stop the massacre you know. Enjoy your gaming.
http://northern-goblin.blogspot.com |
Caellach Marellus
Nephtys Ventures inc
442
|
Posted - 2012.02.22 14:05:00 -
[4] - Quote
Tiberious Thessalonia wrote:Well, yes, you do. You have to impede the wishes of the one group to massacre the other. You have to impede the 'right' of the people who would rather see you go away than avoid being massacred.
Not necessarily. Why does everything have to result in violence? Since when was diplomacy and negotiation no longer an option? Since when was being a deterrent in a neutral area between the two places not an option?
If one side wishes to then attack the other they find you in their way, that doesn't stop them from carrying on if they want to, just they have to get through you first. They still have the right to do so, as much as you have the right to respond. Enjoy your gaming.
http://northern-goblin.blogspot.com |
Caellach Marellus
Nephtys Ventures inc
442
|
Posted - 2012.02.22 14:46:00 -
[5] - Quote
Tiberious Thessalonia wrote:Caellach Marellus wrote:Tiberious Thessalonia wrote:Well, yes, you do. You have to impede the wishes of the one group to massacre the other. You have to impede the 'right' of the people who would rather see you go away than avoid being massacred. Not necessarily. Why does everything have to result in violence? Since when was diplomacy and negotiation no longer an option? Since when was being a deterrent in a neutral area between the two places not an option? If one side wishes to then attack the other they find you in their way, that doesn't stop them from carrying on if they want to, just they have to get through you first. They still have the right to do so, as much as you have the right to respond. That fits very much into the 'You have the power to stop it' situation. Sadly, these conditions do not always exist (space enough between the people to situate yourself in, and either side being willing to talk to the other). In cases where they do not, you need to decide at what point you are going to stop and withdraw to allow the massacre to happen, or disregard the wishs of both groups in order to do what's morally right.
You can only go so far and do so many things that are within your limitations, regardless of size or position. Unfortunately not every scenario can end in a win. Relocation or interference can be met with outright hostility, till you find yourself at war with the people you tried to protect. Choice must sadly in some cases be respected, but only after all alternatives have been exhausted.
Problem is too few people have the patience to go through all the alternatives and merely resort to the quick easy solution. Enjoy your gaming.
http://northern-goblin.blogspot.com |
Caellach Marellus
Nephtys Ventures inc
442
|
Posted - 2012.02.22 15:12:00 -
[6] - Quote
Tiberious Thessalonia wrote:It's in the place where you have to choose one hand or the other where you see what is more important to a person. Of course other avenues should be exhausted, but when it comes down to these peoples lives and their free will, you have chosen their free will as the more important factor, and they have ended up dead.
You only know that in hindsight. As I said not every scenario can end in a win. Should you choose to deny their free will they may turn against you and in self defence you're forced to kill them, and they have ended up dead anyway. Enjoy your gaming.
http://northern-goblin.blogspot.com |
Caellach Marellus
Nephtys Ventures inc
442
|
Posted - 2012.02.22 15:56:00 -
[7] - Quote
I think at this point we're also changing the scenario. For clarification have the Elders asked you to leave the village or the entire planet?
Because you can act to prevent it without upsetting the former, and the latter is unreasonable that they make demands beyond their jurisdiction.
Ah the joy of hypothetical scenarios.
Edit:
Esan Vartesa wrote:Ah, how typically Gallentean.
The truth is that you're just indulging in self-adulation. You are the party in a position of power in this scenario. You get to make the life and death decisions. So, the ONLY answer is to do what serves YOU best, not what's best for the backward little peasants on the surface.
With power comes responsibility, if you can't see beyond your own interests then that's your prerogative to serve yourself. Not everyone is like you though. Enjoy your gaming.
http://northern-goblin.blogspot.com |
Caellach Marellus
Nephtys Ventures inc
442
|
Posted - 2012.02.22 16:22:00 -
[8] - Quote
Tiberious Thessalonia wrote:Work within the bounds of what is clearly intended. The situation has been set out. The choice has to be made. Make the choice, or don't get involved in the thought exercise?
I think you're misunderstanding the parameters, hence why I would like clarification from the General as to the exact specifications. Right now we're playing guesswork.
From what I understood it the Peacekeepers are not welcome in the village. Anything they do outside of there is their own choice to make and not subject to criticism from the locals. From your understanding they're not welcome on the planet and any interference of any kid is going to offend.
Two very very different situations. Enjoy your gaming.
http://northern-goblin.blogspot.com |
Caellach Marellus
Nephtys Ventures inc
442
|
Posted - 2012.02.22 16:36:00 -
[9] - Quote
Tiberious Thessalonia wrote:Caellach Marellus wrote:Tiberious Thessalonia wrote:Work within the bounds of what is clearly intended. The situation has been set out. The choice has to be made. Make the choice, or don't get involved in the thought exercise? I think you're misunderstanding the parameters, hence why I would like clarification from the General as to the exact specifications. Right now we're playing guesswork. From what I understood it the Peacekeepers are not welcome in the village. Anything they do outside of there is their own choice to make and not subject to criticism from the locals. From your understanding they're not welcome on the planet and any interference of any kid is going to offend. Two very very different situations. The thought experiment is itself in the choice, Caellach. It isn't asking 'How could this have been avoided', it's 'Now that you have this awful choice to make, which do you pick'.
So basically you're throwing the entire scenario out of the window and asking me what I'd choose in a "Damned if you do, damned if you don't." scenario instead? Enjoy your gaming.
http://northern-goblin.blogspot.com |
Caellach Marellus
Nephtys Ventures inc
442
|
Posted - 2012.02.22 16:47:00 -
[10] - Quote
Tiberious Thessalonia wrote:Caellach Marellus wrote: So basically you're throwing the entire scenario out of the window and asking me what I'd choose in a "Damned if you do, damned if you don't." scenario instead?
I'm saying that's what you were presented with. Hes asking you a very specific question at the end of the OP.
I disagree with your interpretation. I believe there are plenty of options in the original scenario and that you can be lead to a positive outcome. Your recent posts have changed said scenario and asked me what I'd do in your alternative no win hypothesis. Enjoy your gaming.
http://northern-goblin.blogspot.com |
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Caellach Marellus
Nephtys Ventures inc
443
|
Posted - 2012.02.22 17:15:00 -
[11] - Quote
Tiberious Thessalonia wrote:Seriphyn Inhonores wrote:What do you in this situation? This is a common dilemma when it comes to questions of freedom, this time a question of freedom from interference. Many complain about Federation meddling in their affairs, and rightfully so, but is the opposite worth death? I am posting this again so that you can read it, with the relevant bit bolded.
So we go into the incompetence of the Commander in charge of the Peacekeepers who didn't use all options available to him? I thought the point of this discussion was "What could have been done differently" not "Which do you prefer, to be shot in the face or shot in the back of the head?" Enjoy your gaming.
http://northern-goblin.blogspot.com |
Caellach Marellus
Nephtys Ventures inc
443
|
Posted - 2012.02.22 17:22:00 -
[12] - Quote
Tiberious Thessalonia wrote:Caellach Marellus wrote:Tiberious Thessalonia wrote:Seriphyn Inhonores wrote:What do you in this situation? This is a common dilemma when it comes to questions of freedom, this time a question of freedom from interference. Many complain about Federation meddling in their affairs, and rightfully so, but is the opposite worth death? I am posting this again so that you can read it, with the relevant bit bolded. So we go into the incompetence of the Commander in charge of the Peacekeepers who didn't use all options available to him? I thought the point of this discussion was "What could have been done differently" not "Which do you prefer, to be shot in the face or shot in the back of the head?" It's very clearly "What do you prefer? Intervening even where you aren't wanted, or letting people handle their own affairs unmolested even if the choice they would make is disastrous."
My understanding of the hypothetical scenario was that you were made unwelcome in the village you were trying to protect, anything you do outside of the village's jurisdiction is not for them to debate, it's not their area you're operating in anymore.
To which case see my reply much earlier on in this discussion.
If you're telling me one village has complete jurisdiction over the planet? Well apart from being somewhat unrealistic (if they had jurisdiction they wouldn't be under threat from a single rival) and the fact you have to act without the benefit of hindsight the choice is simple. You already have an agreement and they ask you to adhere to it, there's no further debate in that position. But I still find the fact one village has the run of an entire planet to be unlikely. Enjoy your gaming.
http://northern-goblin.blogspot.com |
Caellach Marellus
Nephtys Ventures inc
443
|
Posted - 2012.02.22 19:21:00 -
[13] - Quote
Tiberious Thessalonia wrote:
I am saying that the question has never been about "What would you do to prevent this awful situation" but "How would you handle this awful situation as it occured". Im not digging into insane hypotheticals I cant know anything about without asking Seriphyn extra questions, Im going based off the information he has provided and the question he asked.
I gave you your answer, whichever way the scenario may be. Enjoy your gaming.
http://northern-goblin.blogspot.com |
Caellach Marellus
Nephtys Ventures inc
443
|
Posted - 2012.02.22 19:59:00 -
[14] - Quote
Tiberious Thessalonia wrote:Caellach Marellus wrote:Tiberious Thessalonia wrote:
I am saying that the question has never been about "What would you do to prevent this awful situation" but "How would you handle this awful situation as it occured". Im not digging into insane hypotheticals I cant know anything about without asking Seriphyn extra questions, Im going based off the information he has provided and the question he asked.
I gave you your answer, whichever way the scenario may be. non-interventionism, then?
Assuming this single village has the legitimate jurisdiction of the entire planet in their chartered agreement. If that's the case then without the gift of hindsight yes I'd leave, and monitor the situation from outside their jurisdiction. It's all I'm allowed to do in this situation.
Furthermore, I'd let them know that should anything happen we'd be a distress call away. Enjoy your gaming.
http://northern-goblin.blogspot.com |
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